Episode Transcript
[00:00:11] Speaker A: Post Structuralism and Therapy what's It All About?
Lightly abridged for audio from Leonie Simmons, Beck Gooden, Shona Russell, Maggie Carey, Jean Coombs, Susanna Chamberlain, Michael White, Helen Gramillian and Taimalier Kiwi Tamasisi.
David Denborough drew together the contributions.
This recording is read by Leonie Simmons about these questions and answers we have compiled these answers to commonly asked questions about post structuralism and therapy in response to regular requests.
Leonie Simmons, with assistance from other people working at Dulwich Centre Publications, generated the questions and sent them out to a range of practitioners. A number of conversations were also held here at Dulwich Centre.
The responses were combined and a draft document was then circulated widely for further discussion and refinement.
Narrative therapy is very influenced by poststructuralist ideas, and yet for many of us it can be quite a challenge to actually understand what poststructuralism is.
Personally, we have been excited, challenged, stretched, and sometimes exhausted by trying to understand poststructuralism and what it might mean for our practice as therapists.
While this is a complex topic, this is only a brief piece of writing.
We've simply focused on a few areas and tried to offer some answers to commonly asked questions. We are not meaning to imply that these are the correct or only answers, we're just hoping that you'll find them helpful. We've certainly learned a lot in putting them together.
Before we start, we'd like to mention that in order to explain post structuralism, we've had to try to show how it differs from structuralism.
We are drawing these distinctions simply because it's the only way we can explain the differences.
We also want to mention that in no way is it our intention to dishonour or disrespect those who prefer to engage with structuralist ways of working.
We all engage with ideas and therapeutic practices differently. We all create unique ways of doing therapy.
Here we're just trying to explain how we understand post structuralist ideas and how they are shaping our work.
What is structuralism and how does it influence the therapy world as we understand it? There came a time during what is sometimes referred to as the scientific revolution, when various people in Europe began to believe that the universe and everything within it could be comprehended by discovering the laws or structures governing all physical phenomena.
The underlying assumption was that there are fundamental, unchanging structures which govern everything from the cosmos to the behavior of minute particles.
Methods of scientific investigation were developed in order to learn about these structures.
It was accepted that scientific objective exploration could provide reliable, valid and universally applicable knowledge of the physical world.
This approach led to some enormously significant developments in the physical sciences and the inventions and technologies that spread from this have transformed the world in many ways.
Not surprisingly, these structures ideas then went on to influence the social sciences and people in a whole range of disciplines.
Anthropology, linguistics, sociology, psychology and family therapy began to look for the underlying internal structures of people, families, societies, culture, language, etc.
One of the effects of the structuralist perspective in the social sciences was to foster the understanding that people can be studied in the same way that objects are studied.
This involves seeing people as separate, discrete units unrelated to others.
Structuralism also implied that it was possible to study other people impartially and objectively.
It was these ways of looking at the world that had led to so many discoveries in the physical sciences.
These structuralist ideas became very popular, particularly in the professions. They circled the world and there are now few places where structuralist ideas have not taken hold.
Structuralist ideas certainly influenced the therapy world.
Within psychology, the influence of structuralist ideas led many of us to believe that if we wanted to know the truth about a person, we had to peel away the layers of the self.
Structuralism implied that deep down, somewhere, we could find the inner self and therefore the truth of the person's identity.
These ideas led many in the therapy world to believe that people's behaviour was due to the influence of these fundamental structures.
Therapists and others began to develop a whole range of ways of interpreting people's behaviour as if it were some way related to the workings of this inner self, inner psyche or inner nature.
When someone was acting in desirable ways, it might be seen that this behaviour was due to an inner self that was working well.
When someone was acting in less desirable ways, it might be seen that this was due to some disorder, deficit or distortion in their inner self, in their being.
The influence of structuralism can still be seen throughout the therapy world.
Structuralism has encouraged therapists and other professionals to to believe that it is our role to know the emotional and psychological truths about those who we are working with, that it's our role to be able to interpret or diagnose the behaviour displayed as in some way related to the workings of the person's inner self, nature or psyche, and that it's then our role to develop a treatment of some description for the person concerned.
Obviously, how therapists and psychologists do all of this varies greatly.
All we've done here is to try to explain what we believe structuralism to mean and to mention some general trends in relation to how it has influenced the field of therapy.
What is poststructuralism and how is it relevant to the therapy world?
To try to explain some of the differences between structuralism and poststructuralism, we will describe some of the assumptions of structuralism, some of the assumptions of poststructuralism and some of the invitations that we believe poststructuralist thought is making to us as therapists. Poststructuralism is a way of thinking that is questioning some of the assumptions of structuralism.
Its origins can be traced to various philosophers such as Michel Foucault and and Jacques Derrida and has subsequently been influencing all the different fields in which structuralist ways of thinking have taken hold.
To try to explain some of the differences between structuralism and post structuralism, we will describe some of the assumptions of structuralism, some of the assumptions of poststructuralism and some of the invitations that we believe poststructuralist thought is making to us as therapists.
Structuralism assumes that the aim of inquiry is to search for deep structures or essential truths about people.
One of the effects of this in the health professions has been the development of various norms and ideas about what people's lives should look like in order to be healthy.
Poststructuralism, on the other hand, suggest that it's important to draw attention to the real effects of of the process of looking for deep structures or essential truths as therapists. Post structuralism invites us to assist people, where relevant, to stop measuring their lives according to what certain social norms say life should be about.
Structuralism assumes that a search for deep structures or essential truths can be objective.
Whereas poststructuralism suggests that what we are looking for, what we believe and where we come from will shape both how we look and what we will find as therapists. Poststructuralism invites us to question therapists objectivity, expertise and practices of interpretation.
Structuralism assumes that it is deep structure, for example the inner self, that shapes life.
It suggests that language and the use of language plays a vital role in shaping life.
In contrast, post structuralism suggests that life is shaped by what people say and do and how we relate to each other, the meanings that we give to the events in our lives and how we organise these into stories about ourselves and others shapes life as therapists. Poststructuralism invites us to question taken for granted ideas and assumptions that might be sustained through the language we're using in therapy.
It also invites us to consider how stories, rituals and other performative aspects are relevant to understanding the process of therapy.
Structuralism assumes that our ideas, problems and qualities are linked to some internal self host. Structuralism, however, suggests that our ideas form problems. Qualities are all products of culture and history.
They have been created over time and in particular contexts. As therapists, post structuralism invites us to externalise ideas, problems, and qualities in therapy conversations.
Structuralism assumes that our identities are fixed and essential they are to be found within our inner selves.
In contrast, poststructuralism suggests that our identities are constantly created in relationship with others, with institutions, and with broader relations of power.
As therapists, poststructuralism invites us to take seriously how every therapy conversation will shape to some extent the identity of both the person consulting the therapist and and the therapist.
It invites us to think through how we can involve appreciative witnesses to the work that is occurring in the therapy room and to develop accountability practices to check out the real effects of therapy conversations on those who consult with us.
Structuralism assumes that our identities are always consistent, whereas poststructuralism suggests that our identities are made up and continually being made up of many, sometimes contradictory stories.
As therapists, poststructuralism invites us to consider how the stories of our lives shape our lives and how therapy might enable the rich description of preferred stories of identity.
Is poststructuralism only influencing therapy or or is it a wider phenomenon? Once again, therapists are engaging with post structuralist ideas in a wide variety of ways. We've just tried to map out some of the differences between structuralism and poststructuralism and some of the invitations we believe poststructuralism is making to the therapy world.
Poststructuralism is a very widespread phenomenon. Since the 1960s, there have been exponential developments in in poststructuralist inquiry in a range of different fields, including critical philosophy, cultural anthropology, literary theory, and sociology. Related developments are also occurring in the fields of art education, architecture, as well as in mathematics and physics.
How does feminism fit with poststructuralism?
Just as poststructuralism questions the taken for granted, feminism questions and challenges dominant ways of understanding gender relationships and the effects of patriarchy on people's lives.
There are many different forms of feminism, or indeed many feminisms.
Some forms of feminism are based on structuralist understandings and promote ideas of, for example, unique women's natures or essences.
Other forms of feminism, poststructuralist or non structuralist feminisms, have questioned the idea of a feminine self or a masculine self and have instead pointed to the existence of many femininities and masculinities.
They have also traced the histories of how women's ways of being have been created in specific contexts of culture, class, race, sexuality, and other relations of power.
Is poststructuralism always hard to understand?
If so, why?
Poststructuralism isn't always hard to understand, but sometimes it is. This is for lots of reasons. Some of the ideas have come from philosophers, and it can be a bit of a stretch to engage with their ways of writing and to understand all the implications of what they are trying to convey.
Some of these writers originally wrote in languages other than English, mainly French, and so their writings have had to be translated, and this hasn't necessarily helped with the ease of reading.
But another reason why poststructuralist ideas are sometimes hard to understand is because we're not used to them.
Structuralist ways of thinking have been very common for about 300 years, and so poststructuralism can seem very unfamiliar and at times confusing.
What's more, for many of us it is only through being introduced to post structuralism that we come to think about structuralism. Learning about both these frameworks for understanding our social world and the differences between them can be challenging.
As with anything different from what we're used to, understanding poststructuralism involves stretching our minds to work out what we agree with, what we disagree with, and to come up with our own understandings.
What do you find most helpful about poststructuralist ideas in relation to therapy practices?
Here are some of the things that a number of therapists are finding most helpful about poststructuralist ideas. The understanding that our identities are not fixed and that they're always in the process of being created is helping me understand differently what is happening in the therapy room.
It makes me think that we as therapists are in the business of assisting people in the creation and recreation of their identities.
I like this idea. Acknowledging that our identities are socially created means I am now more on the lookout for how our lives are influenced by by history, culture, gender, sexuality, class, and other broader relations of power.
The idea of identity being something that's created in relationship with others rather than something internal means I'm trying now to always create an audience to witness the changes that someone is making in their life, whether this is actually having people come into the room or us catching others up with the developments through writing.
I am always busily thinking about who would be good to witness this new development.
I think I've always been a therapist who is sensitive to those who come to see me, and I've always tried to hear what difference the therapy has been making to their lives.
Now I am even more determined to check things out in the therapy room.
I don't think I fully understand poststructuralism, but I like the idea that I can't know the truth about other people's identities.
That really fits for me. It always has.
Now I just have a different way of understanding why.
Through engaging with post structuralist ideas I am coming to realise that my understandings are never objective, neutral or value free.
This is encouraging me to examine my own perspectives and to prevent imposing my ideas on others.
It's keeping me on my toes and I think this is a good thing.
Post socialist ideas are helping me to be on the lookout for times, places, events and ways of being that don't fit the normal.
I'm more likely to celebrate these now.
Of course I'm not referring to things that are in any way hurtful to others here, but just the quirks of life.
I am ready now to notice the different ways that people negotiate their lives and to explore the history of this and what it means to people.
I find these really interesting conversations.
Last words. We hope these questions and answers are helpful.
It's a big topic, but we also find it really exciting.
Post structuralist ideas seem to open up new possibilities for creative forms of listening to and working with people.
We look forward to hearing where your explorations of these ideas take you.
Further Reading Vivian Burr, An Introduction to Social Construction, published in 1995 by Rutledge Michel Foucault, Power Knowledge Selected Interviews and other writings to 1977, published in 1980 by Pantheon Chris Whedon, Feminist Practice and Post Structuralist theory, published in 1987 by Blackwell.
[00:19:46] Speaker B: Thank you for listening to this podcast from International Journal of Narrative Therapy and Community Work, published by Dulwich Centre Foundation. More about this recording and a treasure trove of articles, videos and multimedia works are available from narrativetherapyjournal.org it's all free to access and share with no login required.
Dulwich Centre is located on the land of the Kaurna people. We acknowledge the traditional owners of country and pay respect to elders past and present.
